HI DOES ANDYONE KNOW THAT IF A CHILD TAKES THE 11 + DO THEY STILL NEED TO STILL DO THE SATS??

IVE ASKED SO MANY PEOPLE NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW THE ANSWER

ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED

You still have to do SATs even if you do the eleven plus

If your child is state school educated then s/he will do the SATs if they go ahead this year.

When I started looking at the 11+ two years ago I was a bit confused at the relationship between SATs and 11+ and was given the impression they were the same thing. I think the reason for this was that my son's primary school placed a lot of emphasis on SATs and hardly any on the 11+.

The truth is these are unconnected (although the 11+ is loosely based on on a Level 5 SATs attainment). While taking the 11+ is optional, SATs (currently) is not.

As a parent with grammar school aspirations for my son, I felt more emphasis should be given on the 11+ than SATs and not the other way round, which was the case with my son's primary school.

While I object to Year 6 children having to contend with two demanding exams when it is at that time their creative juices should be allowed full opportunity to flow, I accept that doing well does demonstrate a basic level of attainment and this provides a good base for secondary school, although it seemed to us my son's grammar school did not take much into account SATs attainment.

Yes your child does have to sit the SATs exams.

If your child is in state education then they have to be taught in accordance with the National Curriculum; the SATs (whether you agree with them or not) are one way of assessing pupils' achievements (wrt National Curriculum objectives).

In state education a school is legally obliged to follow the teaching and learning objectives as set out in the National Curriculum. Schools are not obliged in any way to prepare pupils for the 11+ assessments, which is why parents feel the need to tutor their children for these tests.

With a new directive being issued from the government on (what seems) a weekly basis, teachers and schools find it hard enough to deliver the NC objectives, whilst providing a rounded enjoyable education, let alone find the time and extra resources to prepare children for the 11+.

It would also be unfair (and possibly illegal?) to focus resources on those pupils doing the 11+, at the detriment of any children who would not be doing the 11+.

If this is news to anyone, and possibly upsetting, I suggest you find the funds for either tuition or a prep-school (preparatory school is so called because it 'prepares' pupils for entrance examinations and is not obliged to teach the NC unlike the state sector). I am neither a tutor or a prep-school employee, I teach in a state grammar.

Please think carefully; consider all skills and abilities your child has as well as their needs (other than academic). From my own experience (and those of my colleagues) a child who is borderline (at passing the 11+) and is tutored to pass, generally has difficulty at 'keeping up' with work and coping with the pace at grammar school.

In reply to John Barber's statement regarding the use of SATs data at secondary school, any school worth its salt will use every piece of assessment data to ensure that every individual child receives 'personalised' access to the curriculum and so reach their full potential. I would suggest to John that he should perhaps ask his son's grammar to clarify how such data is used in order to address his son's 'personalised' education and pastoral needs.

Good luck.

Tired Teacher.

Hi Tired Teacher

I will take up your suggestion and find out how my son's grammar school uses SATs information. Funnily enough, when I did speak last to his teacher, they had my son's primary school estimated SATs result before them and not the actual result. I think this was a qwerk to do with the fact that the SATs results were received late. He actually did better than his teachers thought. I still though, on relection, hold to my earlier response. As far as I can make out my son's grammar school does not stream pupils to start with and when they did e.g. for maths it was based on internal test results.

A small point about borderline ... my own impression is that there are a lot of children, maybe 15-30% of those who take the exam, who I would class as borderline. Most in my view would do well in a grammar school if they had the opportunity. Most fail because of the restriction on places and through lack of 11+ specific preparation. The children who don't do well at grammar schools are those who have been coached to pass with neither the innate ability or the right attitude or spark to avail themselves of the opportunities these schools offer.

What frustrated us as parents while our son was at primary school was the school put so much emphasis on SATs and hardly any on the 11+. They sold the lie that it would influence how the children will be classed when in secondary school and that it was the only exam that mattered. Until I received my wake up call, I was duped into thinking this preoccupation with SATs meant we did not need to take any action re. extra tuition. It really grated that after the 11+ came and went, without hardly a whimper from the school, it then went on to do mock SATs tests every other day up to the test itself (and this was the time when REAL education should have taken place). I was more than mildly bemused (more highly annoyed)!

Schools should imo be preparing each child according to his or her particular needs even if only a minority are interested in the 11+ (actually at our son's school it was at least a half even though only 16% passed). One of the defining moments of our campaign was when we found that our son (who had a 5B SATs grade in maths at the end of Year 5 and was top of his year) could not confidently tackle 4 of the questions in the 11+ paper two months prior to doing the real thing! The reason was this had not yet been taught in those areas, one of which was simple algebra! That was COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE, as was the schools intransigence when challenged over the matter!

Even if the school is not resourced to teach children with the 11+ in mind (something I would dispute, incidentally) it at least should make the position clear to parents whose children might miss out due to the understandable ignorance of their parents (I speak to too many parents in a similar position to the one we were in to be confident I know what I am talking about). It was one of the main reasons I wrote my book and, as I understand it, why Simon and company have started this fantastic website, whose forums we are participating in.